Insert Bloodshed Here

[Zaldax]

have to go to TJ orientation..views shall be given later...

[Kloud]

masterordarkness said:

If America is a land of opportunity how come we haven't had a woman or a minority as a president?

Time for my few cents. =P

In my opinion, the fact that we have never had a woman or minority in government isn't based solely on the fact that they /are/ of the womanly gender or a different race.

Supposedly, our leaders are chosen because of their platforms and goals they have should they become president. The fact that we've only had men as our commander in chief is because they are the ones who have had points which appeal to the public more than others.

Whether they are men, woman, donkeys, or whatever does not matter, it's their campaign that has drawn people to vote for them.

[Broker of Darkness]

Good point....Both of them...

[Schmergo]

No, well, he said that in history, most major mistakes were made by white males. Until recently, most other groups were not allowed to be in positions of power. This was a major mistake made by white males, true, but because MAJOR, HIGH-PROFILE mistakes are mainly made by people in power, there weren't chances for, say, women to make huge errors like that. As a rabid feminist, this does not make me happy, but it's the truth.

Yep.

[Broker of Darkness]

Yep...

[Broker of Darkness]

This is literally the best one-sided debate I've had in awhile...

[Schmergo]

But see, I'm sure that if women were in power from the start, rather than men, all men would be talking about the evil oppressiveness and closed-mindedness of women. Same with any other minority, racial group, religion, etc.

Power corrupts. That's that.

[Schmergo]

It's more of a discussion than a debate.

[Broker of Darkness]

Yeah...

[Schmergo]

I've noticed that a large majority of this site has liberal/democratic views, so I'd like to say this about some of the Democratic Party's candidates:

Hilary Clinton is intelligent and everything, but I don't think she'd be a particularly good president. And think about how awkward it is to have a president who is married to an ex-president... though that's not a reason NOT to vote for her if you support her platform.

I guess the problem with her is that she's very businesslike, and in being so businesslike, she alienates people. She's not warm-n-fuzzy like Bill (who was a little TOO warm and fuzzy... *cough* Monica Lewinsky *cough*), who, despite the fact that he did some extremely stupid things, still remains popular because he seemed like a nice, average guy WHO WAS THE MOST POWERFUL PERSON IN THE WORLD AT THE TIME.

Now, as I've said many times, I'm a feminist. This does not mean I hate men, and it does not mean that I think women are better than men. It means that I think women are EQUAL to men-- not such a radical concept. (And I agree that there are some areas in which one gender is generally superior to another, but they balance one another out. For example, women tend to be more empathetic than men, but men tend to have a clearer grasp of logic.)

But although I'm a feminist, I don't think people should vote for Hilary Clinton just so that there will be a female president.

So many people are saying, "Yay, Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama! Minorites in the running! Let's vote for 'em and make history!" But that's all they want to do-- make history. They want to have an interesting article in the next edition of Ye Olde Booke Of U.S. Presidents.

Look at what the candidates are saying. Look at what they stand for, and think about what life will be like if they win. Don't say, "Look how open-minded and enlightened we are, voting for [insert candidate's name here], while you silly Republicans are still squatting in your primeval mud huts and picking white male candidates." Think about what will work, not what will look good.

Although it wouldn't hurt if Hilary Clinton did a campaign commercial like Gabby Rosa's.

Actually, in retrospect, it probably would.

[Schmergo]

Tell me what you people think about the opinion stated above. If you really like Clinton or Obama or whatever's policies, bully for you! Tell me what you like about them!

If you don't know who you're rooting for, tell me what you want in a candidate!

If you're a conservative/Republican, tell me who you're voting for, and please tell me how you get your wireless service. It's terribly difficult plugging my computer into the outlet of my mud hut... kidding. It's generally the hippies who have the mud huts, and they're generally liberals. ^_^

[Kloud]

Honestly, I feel that electing Hillary is almost like electing Bill Clinton all over again. You can't have one without the other. Hillary took some action herself when Bill was in office, after all. Who knows what Bill might do with his wife in the hot seat?

Really, I have no memory of anything that Bill Clinton did. All I know is that my Dad hates his guts, his car, and his mother.

However, would we want this guy again as our president again?

Seeing as I can't vote anyways, plus the election isn't coming up any time soon, I have no idea who I want as our next nation's leader.

[kanegunlock]

Chainsaws...zombies you get the picture

[Zaldax]

...I take it Broker's not Caucasian, then....

Point to come, I was at TJ's Freshman orientation, which i'll be telling some of you (Schmerg, at least) about in excruciating detail.

[Zaldax]

Oh, and in reference to our next president...

Guiliani for '08

Elect "America's Mayor" for Pres. Geat, Moderate views, Doesn't like Iraq war (for all you Dem's out there), and as a bonus, would be first president with Italian descent!

Anyway, back on topic...

I dislike gyas for the same reason most of the world does...it's an ingrained pshycological thing. You see, people were not meant to be gay, so being gay is an affront to nature, and as such, we are genetically programmed to dislike them...unless, of course, you believe being gay is a genetic thing...In this case, it is a Mental or Physical condition, which implies that it can be treated or CURED The word "Cure" implies that something is wrong, like a Disease. So, if you take that stance, you are basically saying Homosexuality is a disease...

So, why do you think people are Homosexual, then? Are you a member of the "Affront to Nature" school, or the "Disease" school of thought?

And, by the way, go ahead and be silent for all I care...at least I won't have to listen to you complain about discrimination....

What I'm trying to say is, That's the way the rest of the World is right now, and America would be veiwed even more negativly if we changed...

Look at the world now. They're denoucing us because of our lighter Gun Control laws, and nearly every other (stable) country in the world has tighter Gun Control laws then we do. The same thing would happen if we changed our laws regarding Homosexuality...that, and we'd be denounced by the Vatican...

[Schmergo]

WARNING: I mention the Christian religion in here. Y'all probably know that I'm involved with the Christian church. If you, personally, aren't Christian, just read what I've posted as a representation of what the bible REALLY says as opposed to what some Christian bigots say the bible says. Don't think I'm trying to force everyone to convert!

Imagine this: what if you were a werewolf and you couldn't help it, but you had to turn into a wolf every full moon? At first you had trouble accepting it, but after awhile, you got used to it. Unfortunately, most people are terrified of werewolves, and you're upset because being a werewolf's only an extremely small facet of your personality/existence. It has nothing to do with your intelligence or interests or talents. People don't want to hire you, work with you, or talk to you because they're afraid you'll bite them, although you know you won't bite anyone!

You'd be really upset, right? It doesn't matter whether being a werewolf is a disease or something instrinsically there inside you, it's still not something you can help. Granted, I'd think it was pretty strange if you werewerewolf, but I'd think about what it would be like to have me running away shouting, "AAAGH, SCARY WEREWOLF, DON'T BITE ME!"

Even if I personally would not want to be a werewolf and do not glorify or necessarily approve of the werewolf lifestyle, I'd treat werewolves like I treat everyone else. There's more to a werewolf than occasionally turning fuzzy, after all. There's the whole other 99% of them, which isn't that different from everyone else.

And if you think about it that way, in obviously fictional terms, it seems so easy to accept. And it's also easier to accept if you think about specific PEOPLE and not a GROUP.

I don't think that homosexual marriage should be necessarily made 100% legal-- that is, anywhere that performs heterosexual marriage has to be able to accomodate homosexual marriages no matter what. Because that would be saying that churches have to perform such a ceremony if asked, and that goes against the Christian faith.

BUT I think they should be allowed to have a CIVIL ceremony, a so-called 'marriage' of sorts that's totally separated from the SACRED ceremony.

The main controversy is over whether it goes against the bible for a homosexual couple to get married. It says "marriage is between a man and a woman," but nowhere does it say that you should dislike all people who are romantically interested of people of their own gender. It just says that they can't have a Jewish or Christian marriage. This is a rule that applies only to Jewish/Christian people. The Muslims say you should cover your head respectfully for Allah. But that's rule for the Muslims, according to the Q'ran. I don't have to wear a veil if I don't want to, because that's a rule that applies to Muslims. It's there to peacefully show the world that you're a respectful Muslim, just like how respectful Christians are SUPPOSED to show themselves as Christians by helping and loving other people.

If you're taking the religious angle, the bible says you should love and accept everyone no matter what. Conservatives tend to say 'I'm religious, I don't want to accept people who don't follow the word of God,' and Liberals tend to say, 'I'm enlightened because I'm not encumbered by religion.' But it's there in the bible, saying that you should love everyone, even if they're not heterosexual or ot Christian or not like you or they turn into a wolf every full moon. You don't have to agree with their beliefs to consider them equals, because again, the bible says all people are equal in God's eyes.

I just try to live by that, personally. I hate the way religion is sometimes twisted. Islam is NOT a religion of evil jihadists! Far from it! And the Christian religion is not a bunch of closed-minded minority-haters. It's just a few extremists who give religions a bad name and use them for their own agenda. Frollo, anyone?

Oh, and the Pope also denounced Harry Potter and said it spread evil, when really the books teach about love and staying with the right side. The 'magic' is all incantational (using magic words) and not invocational (calling on demons; the kind of magic the bible forbids), but the Pope doesn't know that, because he's never read Harry Potter.

This is totally unrelated. Just me being me! ^_^

[kanegunlock]

I totally agree with you and here are a fue things I blame the crusades, the Vietnam war , the clash between communism and democracy and the division between Western and Eastern Civilization

[Zaldax]

...you're confusing yourself... I don't hate homosexual people, I feel uneasy around them... The way I feel is completely natural.....


I, i'm not all that religious, either. i go to church, try my best not to sin, and believe in God....

that's about it...we Episcopalians are not known for fundamentalism....

Let me just point out that people wouldn't be as scared if they didn't know you were a werewolf (Remes Lupin, for example), or if you were a former werewolf who had been cured, or if you were trying to change...

But werewolf is a bad example because it involves bodily harm, where as homosexuality does not....

that's about all the one-handed debating i can handle for now, so i'll stop there until later.

[Schmergo]

Well, it's just, you said 'people wouldn't be as scared if they didn't know you were a werewolf (Remus Lupin, for example.)'

You probably have some friends or aquaintances who are homosexual, but they just haven't told you. It's hard to think about them as a 'group' around whom you feel uneasy when you already have a friend who belongs to that 'group.' You stop thinking of them as a 'group' and start thinking of it as an adjective that happens to describe your friend, as well as many other people.

Just think about Graham Chapman. ^_^

[Schmergo]

It's just human infamiliarity that causes unease, and thinking about 'groups' instead of individuals.

I'm guilty as well-- I've said things like, "Pep rallies are for preps" or "the cafeteria where I went instead of the boring pep rally was full of emos." I have individual friends who fit under the headings 'prep' and 'emo' in terms of style/personality generalizations, but I STILL keep using the stupid generalizations-- just not for my friends. I stop thinking of them as a 'prep' or 'emo' and start to think of them as people.

Like, let's say Zim, Kane, and Broker of Darkness all lived on some island where they were the only inhabitants ever since they were tiny babies. Then, I arrive on my awesome helicopter that I've just randomly acquired for the purpose of this scenario. (While we're at it, let's make it neon orange and sparkly and made of candy. Heck, I can dream, right?) Well, I walk onto the island and introduce myself.

The guys are going to freak out, right? They've never seen a girl before. I don't look like them. My voice sounds different from theirs. I wear different clothing from them. Their first reaction is going to be, "AAAGH, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PERSON? THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG HERE!"

After awhile, they'll probably realize that there's nothing "wrong" with me per se-- I'm just different from them. And they'll stop feeling so uneasy once they realize that and once I've stopped being so 'unfamiliar' to them.

Humans are equipped to put up resistance to change and to be wary of things that are different from what they're used to. But that's a throwback to the days of the cavemen and cavewomen, like tailbones. We're not cavepeople anymore (forgive me, Geico cavemen!)